Outcome: The CHB group will be disbanded. The Camp Half Blood location will be deleted. The group will have a week OOC to re-write their characters and submit them for re-approval from Jay or Jaye. These characters should not be used again until they're re-approved.
The group known as "The Cool Half-Bloods" or the CHBs has been highly contested on the wiki. The group sort of slipped by when the discussion of the super-hero groups got disbanded when Jisk put up a blog. Recently, a discussion of how realistic the Camp Half-Blood house is has come up. Moreover, the whole idea of the fact that this appears to be blatant plaigarism of the Camp Half-Blood characters is a glaring issue, which is something Carn brings up on his page Which Wiki Is Which?.
I've heard from several users independently that Camp Half-Blood has their own RP wiki. We are a Harry Potter wiki, and there shouldn't be a group so blatantly cut-and-pasted from one fandom to another. This, combined with all the other issues above leads me to believe that this group needs to be disbanded, but the Crats believe the whole of the wiki should have a say.
Should the group be disbanded, the following measures would be effective immediately:
- The Camp Half-Blood location would be deleted, along with all of its linked pages.
- If the users of these characters would like to keep them, they may do so with the understanding that there would be significant changes. The users would have to re-write the characters to remove any references to Percy Jackson, or CHB, and they would have to be re-submitted for approval by Jaye or Jay.
Anyone may vote-- including regular users. The vote will be active until 4/17/16 OOC.
- You are, and always have been,my dream. I love you more than there are stars in the sky and fish in the sea. 02:16, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
- This above all else...to thine own self be true. 02:18, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
- The curves of your lips rewrite history. 06:33, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
- 10:09, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
- - sodium for salty times
- 18:28, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
- 15:06, April 12, 2016 (UTC)
- 16:57, April 12, 2016 (UTC)
- GoldenGail3 (talk) 20:22, April 12, 2016 (UTC)
- Hi, I'm Surfer and I'm full of interesting facts! (talk) 01:53, April 14, 2016 (UTC)
- Let's find a light inside our universe now; When ain't nobody keep on holding us down; Just come in, get in, let them say what they say; Cause I'm about to put them all away
I think there are a lot of characters whose history and personality are quite different from the characters (see Nausikaa Argyris and Svetlana Vasilyeva for examples of this) and I don't think it should have to be completely rewritten. That's like getting to know an entirely new character, when there's been effort made to distance them from the canon character they're based on. So, I feel a little uneasy voting for disbanding the dynamic when some users are being almost accused of complete plagiarism when while looking at the characters, they're really not. If there were changes to this rule, I'd vote to disband, but for now I think I'll abstain.
So...I've read the comments, and concerns and here's my 2-cents for what it's worth. I have no problem with characters based on things from other fandoms/stories/movies/etc. However, to exist here on our HARRY POTTER wiki, they may need to be tweaked or their backstory detailed enough to make their presence and inclusion in our world viable. There are lots of characters running around here from one place or another, and the ones that are accepted are the ones that have been tweaked enough to make them fit.
So that being said I've seen a couple issues about the CHB characters. First, they live alone which really isn't realistic. I've read the Percy Jackson series and a couple of the other books and generally those characters don't live alone either. There are adult(ish) guardians at CHB. This shouldn't be hard to fix IC, and while I know it's the least of the issues it's also the most easily fixed.
Secondly, they don't belong here. This is a bit more tricky since I think they can be redone to fit in this world...it just has to be done well. I honestly this the big problem here isn't a character similar to Percy Jackson, and another similar to Anabeth Chase, etc...it's that there's a lot of characters similar and their relationships to one another have been essentially copied and pasted. If we just had a bunch of similar characters, and they were similar to characters from another world it wouldn't be as big a problem.
Finally, I saw something about swords/duels at Hogwarts? I haven't seen them myself, but if I had my teacher would have appeared, weapons confiscated, and detentions given. This...isn't realistic for our world. That being said, if they were dueling with magic and spells, I see less of a problem (if caught maybe a warning instead of detention, etc). Weapons are very rarely used in the HP world, and magic is highly used. Maybe if you can figure a way to make magic do what you want it to to keep the feel of the character, it wouldn't be an issue.
So...all that said I don't have a problem with the characters themselves, or the fact that they're here. My issues are with the way they were brought over here and that they haven't been adapted to this world we RP in. I'm not going to vote for or against, but I think if they stay, they need some work and love to make them a viable part of this wiki and not seem like they shouldn't belong here.
I'll just add my two cents here. First off, thank you for offering your own two cents and voicing your concerns in a civil way. I've thought about it and I admit my own character has her shortcomings and that she needs a bit of a tweak, especially on the weapons part of her page and a few points in her history. Yes, the pre-planned relationships are a bit of a stretch, but we did deter from the original PJO relationships and the house is an even longer stretch, especially the fact that they're a bunch of minors.
I do have a few ideas on how weapons can coexist with magic, if you all want to lend an ear and listen. If not, well, there's not much I can do about it. But I do have another concern; the complete rewriting of histories and personalities part. Some, if not all, of us had become quite, ah, attached to the characters we have created and develop. I would've been okay with tweaking a few parts, rewriting a paragraph here, deleting a sentence there but complete rewrites are a bit of a stretch. We understand that you're all concerned on how the characters were brought to the wiki and how they fit and all I'm asking here is for you all to give us a chance and lower the complete rewrite to a few tweaks. If it makes the situation better, you can even send in suggestions on which parts to edit.
I understand if you will refuse, but there's nothing wrong with asking. Other than that, I'm on neutral grounds for now. I hope you all don't take this the wrong way and that the situation may be solved with little to no conflicts. Have a nice day~!
I'd agree with Catty and Mara on this. Most of us spent a long time making it sure that their histories and personalities weren't copy-and-paste and all we would need to do would be change a few things. Especially with the relationships.
Like with Finlay/Calla, Tristan/Karla, or others, Riordan said that "Jason"/"Reyna" was not canon and was only mentioned as an older relationship to give "Jason" a new chance. And Tristan/Karla aren't even canon in the first place, so I'm not sure if this would cause anyone problems if we tweaked the history like Catty suggested and maybe, if the Crats could spare time, then they could look over the histories or personalities and tell us what, via PM, needs to be fixed.
I'd also like to say that I do have ideas on how weapons could be worked into here and maybe Catty and I can work together to figure out what might work and what wouldn't. Again, these are just ideas, but thank you for listening and taking our thoughts on this.
See, here's my problem with tweaking the characters. They shouldn't have been made in the first place. Because this is exactly what the other dynamics were, and those were shut down. It seems that the argument here is that because they've already been made that they're an exception to the rule.
Also it doesn't really matter if the relationships are canon or not. The characters are still inspired from another book series which in no relates to HP. There's a seperate wiki for characters like these. They shouldn't be here on this wiki.
13:58, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
Ah, I see, I see. And I understand. But this is just for clarification, and not for argument starters; we were intending to just have the dynamic as something inspired by the series, but things got out of hand. I'm terribly sorry that our dynamic has caused this much disturbance and while I would like to defend the dynamic, I also don't want the wiki to explode in arguments. I asked once, and I was refused and with good reason, too, so it's no use adding fuel to the fire.
I admit that I'm a bit saddened to see this much fuss but I do understand where your concerns are coming from. Hopefully this goes smoothly and we'll be back to our normal flow. Until then, I hope no other conflict arises.
I feel like something like what I did with Astrid post-TVS breakup would be good enough. A few tweaks and a purpose outside the dynamic.
I'll admit to not having read the CHB series, so someone else would have to tell me where the differences are. The reasoning behind the rewrites was because the relationships were becoming copy/paste. And relationships stem from both the history and the personality. This above all else...to thine own self be true. 14:57, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
So I spoke to a user (I'm not naming any names) who is part of this dynamic with some suggestions on how these characters/etc could potentially fit in better with the wiki. I thought we'd cleared a lot of the air and there were going to be steps taken to remedy the issues. I was also told that two b-crats were consulted on the matter, however I spoke to one of said b-crats to get some sort of corroboration, and she informed me that this was not true, and she was never consulted.
This is a problem.
I was pretty much lied to. For what purpose? This dishonesty is what breaks apart communities like these. And it's got me really angry. I expect myself to be honest with every user on the wiki, and I expect there to be quid pro quo. This 'dynamic' pretty much caused this, and at this point I'd like to see it gone, for all intents and purposes as a 'CHB inspired' group.
N.B. If a bureaucrat would like to see the chatlogs, I can provide them.
As someone who has read the PJO and HOO series an embarassing amount of times, and who gets extremely attached to even my most underdeveloped characters, I'd like to suggest a little tweak: instead of forcing a complete rewrite, why don't we just allow the users to change some of the history and have the character resorted by users who are familiar with the series? We could do a little vote on if the history is too close or not, if that's preferable. I know that sounds like a lot of work, but I think it's cruel to force users to redo characters they may have become attached to, especially if there's a way around doing so.
I will honestly abstain from responding to any of the comments above... but I will say this. Even if I so happen to be the only one to defend the CHBs, I will stand by that dynamic, with my heart, mind and soul. Just explain this to me; what is that fricking wrong with a crossover? Because I will be serious, there ain't nothing wrong with it. In no way, shape or form are the CHBs that much more overpowered. Yeah, they cross the boundary of realism, so what? My point is, essentially, you're trying to suppress creative freedom. This wiki, yes it's Harry Potter universe, but it's a place to RP. In order to RP, you must have some form of creative freedom. Heck, take RPGs. Those give you just enough freedom to crossover whoever you want from what ever. That is simply my take on it, slam me and do what you wish, because I clearly can't and won't stop you from doing it. Let's find a light inside our universe now; When ain't nobody keep on holding us down; Just come in, get in, let them say what they say; Cause I'm about to put them all away
Right now, I'm going to have to abstain from voting. I agree with Lilly in the sense that some of the users involved spent a lot of their time planning their characters and developing to what they are today, and it wouldn't be fair of us to force these users to completely re-write their characters' histories and personalities. Moreover, I do agree with CK and Carn in the sense that a) they're minors and they shouldn't have weapons, much less in Hogwarts, b) they're minors and live on their own in their own house. This is not realistic at all. Not to mention, it's named Camp Half-Blood. It's like a straight-out copy from the PJO series. Now, I also agree with Jay. She and I have read the PJO and HoO series, so it would be little to no problem to re-sort these characters. Now let me clarify, if the community were to let them be tweaked and re-sorted, I'll force the users to take out every thing I see close to resembling any PJO/HoO characters. This may seem like a lot of effort, but I think that not only can Jay and I handle it, but the users should at least have the opportunity to make the necessary changes.
Please take note that I'm not against the dynamic's category being deleted, along with the house and their weapons to be removed from their page/possession. I only want them to be given the chance to be tweaked/sent to resorting rather than completely rewritten.
I also feel like I should apologize for letting this situation get out of hand, when I could have stopped it from ever starting during the sorting process.
I agree with Jay on the suggestion of having a resorting of the characters by those who have read the series, to get it tweaked enough that it is not CHB thing anymore, and gets rid of some of the pre-existing relationships that are causing much of the problem it seems. Also, I'd like to point out the large amount of users (at least in the comments) who seem to favor a third option, so, could a third option be placed in the vote?
As i'm one of the user who created one of the characters obviously i'm not voting, but i'm also not going to defend or not defend the dynamic. As i've said before the dynamic allowed for the chance to roleplay with other users that we may not have had a chance with before. But seeing as the theme behind it seems to be a massive problem i'm glad it's been brought to a vote at least now we know everyone's opinions. I'd just like to say if someone is willing to give the time to look over the character pages and let us know what needs to be changed, I'm sure many of us will be happy to make the necessary changes to get them accepted on the wiki because i know i've at least become rather attached to my character. Fandomgirlforever (talk) 20:06, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
I feel like this is getting extremely blown out of proportion, so I'm just going to offer my opinion. Nothing that is Camp Half Blood-related belongs on a Harry Potter wiki. You have your own wiki for this. Characters that are loosely based on CHB characters - same first name, same faceclaim, similar personality traits - is fine, but entire locations? Entire characters? No, that's unacceptable. This is a Harry Potter roleplay wiki, an entirely different universe. The curves of your lips rewrite history. 20:09, April 11, 2016 (UTC)
I understand the point about it being a Harry Potter Wiki, but it's hard to make exact replicas of characters on the CHB Wiki. Think about what would happen if someone tried to essentially recreate HP, with Harrison, Rocko, and Helga being friends, Rocko and Helga getting married, and Harrison marrying Rocko's sister Julia. It would be bad.
That said, the CHBs are essentially the characters from Percy Jackson copied and pasted into Hogwarts. The personalities are the same, the interactions are essentially the same, and there's massive implausibilities, what with the house and the swords. I think it's the implausibilities that really turn me off.
And about the argument that you can now interact with people you don't normally interact with... That's an easy fix. You don't have to roleplay thinly-veiled representations of other characters in order to roleplay with other people. You could create a family of characters with their own unique personalities. In fact, I think this would be even more fun! But that's just my opinion. Hi, I'm Surfer and I'm full of interesting facts! (talk) 01:52, April 14, 2016 (UTC)